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Enrollment slightly up for UT, but not quite as high

Administration planned for lower enrollment due to higher admission standards in colleges

IC Staff Writer

Published: Thursday, September 9, 2010

Updated: Thursday, September 9, 2010 17:09

Enrollment Graph

Graph by Nick Kneer/ IC

Enrollment Graph

Tuesday marked the "Fifteenth Day" for universities in Ohio when official enrollment numbers are tallied and state subsidies are given out accordingly.

Three colleges at the University of Toledo, the Judith Herb College of Education, College of Nursing and College of Business Administration, have raised their admissions standards.

As a result, the full–time equivalency of undergraduate and graduate student population has decreased by nearly 0.2 percent, declining from 19,622 last fall to 19,589 this semester.

Overall general enrollment — which includes part-time students — has increased 0.1 percent from last year, with 23,085 students compared to 23,064 students last year.

With the exception of the JHCOE, which saw an increase of 116 students, each of those colleges has seen a drop in enrollment.

The College of Nursing saw a 2.7 percent drop from last year's 513 full-time students, whereas the College of Business Administration saw a 2.4 percent drop from last year's 2,520 students.

Instead of attempting to increase the numbers for the "Fifteenth Day," UT has held back 300 students' admission into the university for a semester.

"We feel awful if students aren't ready," said Vice President for External Affairs Larry Burns.

Burns and others at UT are advocating for the 300 students given enrollment deferments until January to take a semester off and enroll in a community college to better prepare themselves for the rigor of a university curriculum.

With this program, Burns is confident UT's student body will not only improve, but also, when future Fifteenth Days come, UT will be more prepared.

"If we admit them now, we get their subsidy for a year," he said. "I'd rather have it for three or four years. Our most important student is the one that we have."

Burns, along with Associate Vice President for Enrollment Services Kevin Kucera, would like to see a transformation in the way students look at UT.

Burns said the university's long-term plan is to transform UT from a school that practices open enrollment, into what he called a "destination environment," which means students will start to list UT as their first choice.

Burns and Kucera said UT has already grown beyond being a regional school, and the two institutions UT dissuades incoming freshmen from attending are the Ohio State University and the University of Cincinnati.

"Every college that we have is showing a higher ACT composite," Kucera said. "It speaks volumes to our ability to draw a student with a greater chance of success."

In addition to raising their ACT composite score requirement from 18 to 19, the College of Nursing will also no longer offer an associate's degree program.

Aaron Collins, a fourth-semester College of Nursing student in the Associate of Science in Nursing program said while most hospitals are requiring a Bachelor of Science in Nursing, the training is the same and the standards for graduation are much higher in the ASN program.

"Most of the students that I've talked with agree that the university has been good to them in terms of finding jobs," he later added.

Director of Career Services Beth Nicholson said there is a good relationship between the university and the city, and that jobs for new graduates in the ASN program do exist.

"Health Care is still growing; ‘green' industries are up-and-coming," Nicholson said, "Students just need to be creative; regardless of their major, they need to articulate what they can offer an employer."

She also encouraged students to begin thinking about internships as early as sophomore year and honing resume-writing skills as early as their first year in college.

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28 comments

Anonymous
Fri Sep 10 2010 11:06
I was not making any statement or judgment comparing the relative evils of respective insults. My point was that many posts have been made attacking various groups and directed at individuals. It was not my case that these were equal or to dismiss attacks some people feel to be sexist or racist (although you will find many different opinions in that regard), but that other anonymous posts have been also directed at other groups and individuals in a disrespective manner.

As right as it may be for someone to have the right to call someone a racist, the same right exists to call out posters for their other insults and personal attacks.

Anonymous
Fri Sep 10 2010 09:07
Wrong. Attacks against minorities and women are much worse than attacks on individuals. Such blanket attacks against groups of people by people like David Tucker and David Nemeth are insidious and against the basic morals of our society. Your argument would say the political silly season around each election is the same as the civil rights debates of the 1960s because in both cases insults are insults and people were just yelling at each other. Attempts to repress and insult groups of people based solely on their gender or race is nothing like an argument (however heated) with someone you disagree with. I've been surprised for more than two years now how many faculty are happy to sit quietly by as their colleagues say such hateful things that were supposed to be a thing of generations past. Silence is consent and hiding behind "insults are insults" is truly and insult to the value of equality I thought this university stood for.
Anonymous
Fri Sep 10 2010 08:46
The poster and the post topics may be different, but insults are insults, and personal attacks are personal attacks regardless of whether it is the A&S blog, or here. I am not comparing or equating but simply pointing out that both are sources of anonymous attacks on people.
Anonymous
Thu Sep 9 2010 19:28
I've not seen any of the racist and sexist posts that I've seen on the A & S blog on any of the comment sections on the IC. To compare the two is to try to wash away the A & S faculty posts as simply rude when their posts (which still exist on the site, it's not like they take them down) are demeaning to minorities, particularly minority students and prospective students and women. Nemeth, whom the Collegian has given a forum in their pages, has explicitly demeaned minority prospective students by name and repeatedly via his blog pen name "Diogenes". Please do not compare rude comments here to the racism and sexism of the A & S blog.
Anonymous
Thu Sep 9 2010 17:27
"A & S Council blog says enrollment is down. So I'm going to assume it is down, regardless of what I hear elsewhere. After all, that blog is full of factual, truthful information so why would i disbelieve it now? So spread the word: enrollment down 9.5 percent. Source: Arts and Sciences faculty leadership. "

One poster made that comment on the A&S Blog, one poster. One poster who clearly made a mistake, intention or not no one knows. Followed by 8 anonymous posts (likely from the same 1 or 2 people) who attack the error and go onto to state that because of that one poster the 9.5% decrease statement was "A&S council policy". And then 3 more attack posts make the same comment here (again most likely the same 1 or 2 attack posters from the blog).

The A&S Blog is not A&S faculty, the A&S Council or A&S leadership, anyone can post anything on the blog, including errors, stupid statements, rude comments, and many people do exactly that including faculty, staff, students and others, often as anonymous comments.

Anonymous
Thu Sep 9 2010 17:16
There are perhaps 5 or 6 faculty posting on the A&S blog, only one of whom is currently in any "leadership" role on A&S Council. But there are many others (faculty, administration, staff, students, others) posting as Anonymous on that blog and this forum, often with equal if not higher levels of inaccuracy, offensive comments, and inappropriateness.

As to the majority of faculty doing or saying nothing, why should be make the time the effort to? Perhaps our time is better spent actually doing our jobs? Sometimes stupid or misguided statements and attitudes are best ignored as meaningless which they often are.

Anonymous
Thu Sep 9 2010 16:32
Though the majority of their peers usually do or say nothing to repudiate the ridiculous, ugly, ill-informed faculty who do post on the blog, many of whom also hold faculty leadership positions on the A & S Council.
Gene
Thu Sep 9 2010 16:00
Keep in mind that anyone, including uninformed faculty, students, staff and others can post on the A&S blog and that it is not the official blog of A&S. Especially considering the large number of Anonymous posters. An yes some faculty and students posting at the A&S blog, and in here, make mistakes and are not representative of the majority of their peers.
Anonymous
Thu Sep 9 2010 14:43
I've sat in quite a few classes where the professor will spend 10 or 15 minutes just ripping into the university. It does make you wonder why they're here. I'd think a job for life would sound like a sweet gig but many seem to really hate it.
Anonymous
Thu Sep 9 2010 13:54
I love it. Faculty get called out on their lie about enrollment dropping so they forget their lie entirely and focus on how it doesn't matter how many students we have because the university they work at sucks next to Ohio State and Miami. Of course this sucking happened instantly on the day UT and MUO merged and the day before the merger UT was one of the greatest institutions in the world. Remember those good old days during Dan Johnson's time when UT was ranked nationally? It's a shame how all that went away the day Jacobs became president. So many of the faculty at this place make arguments that are just mindless in every sense of the word. Why on earth do they stay at UT since they're so outstanding and UT is so terrible?

I'm still waiting for Nemeth or someone to explain how flat enrollment due to higher admission's standards is evidence that students aren't coming to UT due to UT's low quality (low quality that only began the day Jacobs arrived). You're all should turn your classes over to your students cause it's very clear they know as much as you. And if they don't, they'll just make it up. Just like faculty.

Derek
Thu Sep 9 2010 13:18
I could have gone to school anywhere in Ohio, including Ohio state and I chose UT specifically because of its mechanical engineering program. I'm in my third year and don't need some mindless professor telling me my college is subpar just because they graduated from OSU. UT engineering students can go up against any in the state and most in the nation. Why the hell are all you people who hate this place so much even here?
Anonymous
Thu Sep 9 2010 11:45
Recruiter, there is nothing wrong with trying to improve UT. Making an unrelated--and self serving--leap of logic to argue that because a large number of UT freshmen sent their test scores to Ohio State means that UT is competing against Ohio State--much less dissuading significant numbers of students from attending Ohio State--is not based on any facts. In fact, you're not presenting any facts at all to say that UT is attracting large numbers of freshmen who would even be considered "average" Ohio State recruits. I, on the other hand, have presented actual facts as to the huge gap in incoming freshman classes between the two schools.

Nor, have you presented any facts to substantiate your claim that UT's engineering college is considered superior to Ohio State's by anyone outside of the UT administration. UT is not Ohio State, nor is it intended to be by the state of Ohio. Part of the problem with higher education in Ohio is that every public university has felt free to attempt to turn itself into an OSU. This has resulted in a huge duplication of programs (particularly at the graduate level) and waste of taxpayer resources. The California model--where universities actually stick to the role for which they were founded--would have served the state of Ohio far better.

Anonymous
Thu Sep 9 2010 10:48
A & S Council blog says enrollment is down. So I'm going to assume it is down, regardless of what I hear elsewhere. After all, that blog is full of factual, truthful information so why would i disbelieve it now? So spread the word: enrollment down 9.5 percent. Source: Arts and Sciences faculty leadership.
Anonymous
Thu Sep 9 2010 10:40
Wait, I'm confused.

Is enrollment down 9.5 percent overall or is it flat overall?

UT Recruiter
Thu Sep 9 2010 10:28
Sorry for butting in. I'm only using facts and you guys have your anecdotal information and personal opinions, so what would I know. I only do this for a living. I don't put the same value in trying to put down the place where I work and the university I'm trying to improve as you do.
Anonymous
Thu Sep 9 2010 10:18
Recruiter, virtually every student in the state sends their test scores to Ohio State--even those with no chance of getting in! That does not automatically lead to the conclusion that UT competes for students with Ohio State. I'm sure that a majority of freshman at BG or Kent also sent test scores to Ohio State. When one looks at those students ACT scores and class rank, one would also find that very few of them, as would be the case with UT, would actually have been accepted to Ohio State.
Anonymous
Thu Sep 9 2010 10:13
Recruiter is right that Ohio State (and Miami) give unqualified students the option to attend a branch campus for a year or two and then transfer after proving themselves. That does not negate the fact that the entering classes at Ohio State (and to a lesser degree Miami) are worlds removed from UT. To put things in perspective, the test score and class rank gap between the average Ohio State freshman and the average Michigan freshman is 2 ACT points and about 6 percentile points in class rank. The gap between that Ohio State freshman and the average UT freshman is 8 ACT points and 32 percentile points in class rank. Ohio State's freshman class is actually much closer to Michigan's than it is to UT's. UT competes for students with Bowling Green, OU and Kent State--not Ohio State or Miami.

Also, please show me anywhere that places UT engineering ahead of Ohio State: rankings, student selectivity, research funding, National Academy members on faculty (UT has none; Ohio State has almost 30) and so on.

Anonymous
Thu Sep 9 2010 10:13
Are you sure the IC is operating on the same set of facts? The A & S blog says enrollment was down 9.5 percent and the IC says enrollment was slightly up in headcount (21 students) and slightly down in FTE (.2 percent). I should listen to the blog right? Cause professors are more highly educated than students and less apt to assert obviously false information. Cause if the admin and the IC are operating from the same set of facts and those facts are different the the A & S Council blog, that must mean the admin and IC are lying, correct?
Anonymous
Thu Sep 9 2010 10:01
"which I might add mirrors almost entirely the admin's story on enrollment, meaning this story was spoon fed)"

Noooo, it simply means that both sources were operating from the same list of facts - meaning that IC gave a comprehensive take on the issue here - and are observing similar journalism writing norms.

Seems to me thatr I remember stories here about the construction of the new Pharmacy building, a number of stories about the JHCOE's interim dean selection, the COBA's new Savage & Associates Complex, the Engineering College receiving grants, College of Nursing Students receiving national awards, service by College of Medicine folks in Haiti, etc.

The suggestion that they have been ignoring other colleges is laughable. You might say that the coverage intensity hasn't been equitable in all cases, but that is a different claim entirely.

UT recruiter
Thu Sep 9 2010 09:58
Actually all public universities across the state have the same admissions standards - all schools are open enrollment. However many schools have branch campuses where they send their lousy students. Any person who wants to go to OSU can go, however only the best can go to their main Columbus campus. Also, there are a number of programs - engineering, pharmacy, some of UT's therapy programs - where UT far exceeds Ohio State. Clearly OSU is better than UT in a lot of programs as well. But we've done research that shows very clearly (because it is based on what schools students select to send standardized test scores to and financial aid info to) that UT's primary competitors are OSU and Cincy.






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